Sexologist Fang Gang: Adultery, infidelity, and partner swapping are human nature, not crimes.

Husbands generally neglect their wives' feelings during sex.
Question: The "Men's Morality Class" training includes a course on "How Men Can Satisfy Their Partners' Sexual Satisfaction." How did the trainees perform? Based on your understanding, what is the state of men's behavior in marital life?
Fang Gang: Some men are concerned about their partners' sexual feelings, but generally speaking, it's lacking. Some men, even if they are concerned, aren't truly doing it for their partner's pleasure; it might be to appear more masculine.
This course aims to convey the beauty of embracing sex and opening up one's body. It discusses sexual harmony, not to create sexual pressure. What we are criticizing is the idea that men must play the role of sexual dominance.
Question: What kind of good partner and good father does the "Men's Morality Class" aim to cultivate?
Fang Gang: The core of male participation is promoting gender equality. If men are masculine, hegemony cannot lead to gender equality. The fundamental solution is to start by changing masculinity.
For example, the sessions on partners involve interactive discussions on communication, avoiding domestic violence, and topics related to sex.
Regarding being a good father, this includes how to care for pregnant women, how to accompany your partner into the delivery room, and how to raise a child, starting with the details from the very beginning: feeding, changing diapers, changing clothes, bathing
, etc., and then how to communicate with the child. We don't want the image of a strict father. We designed things to pay attention to when communicating with children from elementary school to adolescence, and also made some scenario designs, such as what to do when a child fails an exam? What to do when a child is naughty and gets into a fight? How should a good father get along and communicate with his child?
There was also a section on the workplace, but we didn't use it due to time constraints.
Growing up being oppressed and rejected led to my focus on gender
equality. Q: When did you start paying attention to gender equality? Why did you start paying attention to gender equality?
Fang Gang: I think I became aware of my gender identity around 1997. It was a completely different story after I accidentally came across feminism.
I read a feminist book at that time, and I was very excited. I walked around the room, feeling like I was being ignited. What I saw in it was equality, not just equality between men and women, but equality between people.
Equality, human rights, fraternity, democracy, and justice—these are precisely the core of feminism. I started with feminism because my own upbringing was unequal.
Q: Why were you oppressed and ostracized from a young age?
Fang Gang: Because of my "Five Black Categories" family background. During the later stages of the Cultural Revolution, I was constantly being beaten and persecuted. I was persecuted by classmates when I was seven, and this psychological trauma lasted for many years. Even at 20, I still stuttered. Back then, if a colleague walked by on the street, I would lower my head, afraid to look them in the eye or greet them; I was extremely ashamed.
After getting involved in gender studies, I found the concept of human rights, finding human rights through feminism. Later, I started reading books on human rights, and I felt deeply empathetic when I saw others being oppressed.
When I first came into contact with homosexuality, I was particularly moved. As a journalist, I interviewed some homosexuals and wrote my first book, *Homosexuality in China*, published in 1995. I felt their situation resonated with my childhood experiences—oppression.
Later, in my research on other sexual minorities, I always stood very firmly on the human rights front, and I also wrote *Nudeism*, among others.
Domestic Violence Has a Family Heritage
Q: Through the White Ribbon Volunteer Network, what is the current state of domestic violence in families in today's society?
Fang Gang: Domestic violence is one of the most typical manifestations of gender inequality. Domestic violence includes physical violence, psychological violence (verbal violence), sexual violence, economic control, behavioral control, and so on. People usually pay attention to physical violence and neglect other types of domestic violence. For example, many people believe that partners have an obligation to have sex, thus turning a blind eye to marital rape (sexual violence) where one partner forces the other; some people, in the name of love, prevent their partners from associating with friends of the opposite sex, or even from going out, which is behavioral control domestic violence; extremely harsh control over a partner's daily expenses is economic control violence.
Our existing statistics show that 90% of domestic violence is male-on-female. Domestic violence is hereditary; it is usually passed down from generation to generation in abusive families. Our survey statistics show that inheritance accounts for about 70%. We all learn how to be a person from our families of origin. For example, if my father tells me to hit my children, I will continue to hit my children. If he tells me to hit my wife, I will continue to hit my wife.
A few people have come to their senses. One young man in our "Men's Morality Class" wanted to change. He had been abusing his wife for over four years before realizing it was wrong. He said he was also a victim of patriarchy, inheriting the violence.
This young man clearly remembered that before he was six, his father never hit him. Until one day, a friend of his father came to visit and boasted about disciplining his son, making him kneel as punishment for every mistake. His father learned this "knowledge" and used it on him, making him kneel and beating him whenever he made a mistake.
Q: Do you think abusers can be saved? Or can domestic violence be eradicated?
Fang Gang: Attending a "Men's Morality Class" can offer hope. The real root of gender-based violence lies in unequal gender relations. Concepts need to be updated gradually, and even triggers are needed. Very few people proactively seek help, so we need cultural advocacy.
The government should mandate that men attend "Men's Morality Classes," or at least include it in an advocacy system, combining social advocacy with media advocacy.
We are also trying to seek cooperation with the government.
Public acceptance of diverse masculinity cannot be achieved solely through pretty boys singing songs.
Q: In your opinion, what are the common misconceptions about gender roles in the public?
Fang Gang: In the past, the prevailing view was that men are masculine and women are gentle, simply opposing masculinity and femininity. In reality, masculinity comes in many forms; some scholars even believe that there are as many types of masculinity as there are men. However, the public still doesn't universally accept diverse masculinity, and this perception cannot be changed simply by a few pretty boys singing songs.
Our ideal gender, like our ideal love, is diverse. Everyone should just be themselves. There are 10,000 people with 10,000 different genders, not just men, women, and transgender. Respect their choice based on their gender; don't reject them.
For example, is it wrong for a little boy to like embroidery? Let them discover their own potential, let them understand the diverse world, and make the choices that best suit them. Adultery
should not be treated as a crime
. Q: In 2008, you led a group of scholars to select the "Top Ten Sex and Gender Events of the Year." Seven years later, how do you see any changes in public understanding of this issue?
Fang Gang: One interesting change is the shift in public attitude towards sex involving power imbalances. Three years ago, the issue of officials having mistresses was met with widespread condemnation, accusing them of being kept women, power abuse, and corruption. At that time, we argued that we must examine specific scenarios to see if they were using their power for coercion or profit; if so, of course, it's unacceptable. But can't a leader and a subordinate, or a teacher and a student, have a normal love affair? We call a celebrity's love a classic love story, but does that automatically mean sexual harassment for ordinary people?
Sexual rights are above morality; we can't use mainstream morality to judge minorities.
Question: Your research spans many disciplines, including sex education, anti-violence, male participation, sexual rights, and sexual minorities. What are sexual rights, and how do you view their relationship with morality?
Fang Gang: Actually, the underlying theoretical basis is all human rights theory, involving sex and gender equality; in my view, it's all gender studies. It's just that I'm quite creative, so I can touch on many points.
The theory of sexual human rights states that human rights are paramount. Human rights include sex; sex is certainly a human right and a part of the body. I believe that sexual human rights are superior to morality. Morality is constantly evolving, and everyone's definition of morality is different; we cannot use mainstream morality to demand that a minority. Morality should be used to regulate oneself, not others, but violating human rights is unacceptable.
Question: Is one of your current research areas focusing on sex education for people with disabilities?
Fang Gang: Yes, we are now starting to pay attention to people with disabilities, which has long been a neglected area; it's extremely difficult to even find relevant materials. Recently, the International Federation of Disabled Persons (IFLD) promoted sex education for people with disabilities in China, and they invited me to give a lecture. I took a look and felt that the current approach is not good enough; there should be better sex education.
I believe that people with disabilities should not only respect human rights but also the principle of justice. What is justice? Justice is not equality. Look at this picture: a high wall, a tall person, a person of medium height, and a person of short height. The tall person can see outside, but the short person can't see anything but the wall. Is the tall person here considered just? No, it's not just. But later, the shorter person stepped on the chair, and the shorter person saw it; that's called fairness. There must be such a concept regarding sexuality for people with disabilities. But no one is raising this issue now; I'm advocating for it.
What rights should people with disabilities enjoy? They should have the right to purchase happiness and be provided with sexual care services.
The adulterous spouse harms the spouse's emotional values and moral sense.
Question: In real life, when one spouse has an affair, the other feels violated and harmed. What's your opinion?
Fang Gang: The Marriage Law was amended in 2000, focusing on whether or not there should be spousal rights, specifically sexual fidelity. People have the right to control their own bodies. Because of marriage, it's stipulated that only one person has the sole right to use a certain organ, which violates their human rights. The result of the debate was a compromise; spousal rights weren't explicitly written, but there is an obligation of mutual fidelity. Judicial interpretations are moral advocacy.
Everyone has their own moral values; there has never been a unified one, and everyone harms each other. From an emotional perspective, if one spouse has an affair, of course, it harms the spouse, but we must realize what is being harmed? It's not their human rights that are harmed, but rather their emotions, values, and moral sense. Everyone has different morals and values, so there's no way to protect them. It's up to the individual to decide: whether to accept, tolerate, or resist.
Q: If everything were measured by human rights, wouldn't society descend into chaos?
Fang Gang: No, it won't. Everyone can be themselves without infringing on the rights of others. Because infringing on others' rights is infringing on their human rights. The ideal harmonious society is one where everyone's individuality is fully expressed. A truly harmonious society is one where everyone happily realizes their life's potential, not just in the realm of sex.
We have two concepts of harmony: one is that you're not allowed to be disharmonious, not allowed to be different, not allowed to be unconventional. The other is that the so-called "hundred flowers blooming" means freely being yourself, but on the premise of not infringing on others. When looking at harmony from the perspective of the rulers, the former might be better. But from an individual perspective, the latter is better.
Therefore, some say that the further apart state power, public power, and private life are, the better. Private life has nothing to do with public affairs, as long as it doesn't infringe on public interests.
Traditional views on love and sex education have harmed countless people and must be overturned and changed.
Q: In the past, we thought infidelity was the root cause of divorce, but now we find that some couples divorce even without a third party, because the husband is unwilling to communicate with his wife. What's your opinion on this?
Fang Gang: Traditionally, most men don't communicate with their wives. Didn't women used to say things like, "You can't even fart from eight poles"? This reflects the domineering, authoritarian nature of men; they're seen as hard shells.
Infidelity is the least deserving of divorce. In our marriage training, I emphasize that infidelity is the last thing you should divorce. If you divorce, the next man might also cheat, and that man might not be loyal to you either. It depends on the feelings between the two people, whether there's still affection. Infidelity has nothing to do with love. The misconception that infidelity means he doesn't love me anymore is a common mistake among many women.
Our sex education needs to change and overturn traditional views on love, which emphasize how faithful and great love is, lasting until the end of time. Why do so many female college students commit suicide because of heartbreak? Traditional sex education bears some responsibility; it has overly romanticized love.
Real life and real love are diverse and complex. Dating, breakups, infidelity, and love triangles are all common.
A flawed view of love is particularly damaging to women. The costs extend beyond intimate relationships; it can alter a woman's entire life's purpose because she may believe marriage and love are paramount. Isn't this a consequence of the poisonous influence of traditional cultural education?
We also need to change men's thinking. If a woman bears the sole responsibility for raising children, then one man will never experience fatherhood. This requires changing the roles of men and women simultaneously. Our past gender education and gender equality movements focused on women's roles, ignoring men. But no matter how much women want to change, if men don't agree, can things really change? What if a woman comes home and says we should share housework equally, but the man refuses? Therefore, we need to educate and change men to achieve true gender equality.
There will be as many kinds of intimate relationships as 10,000 people, as long as human rights aren't violated.
Question: So, what do you think an ideal society's intimate relationships should be like?
Fang Gang: I think that in the future, there will be 10,000 different kinds of intimate relationships among 10,000 people. Some people will remain single their whole lives, some will cohabitate for life, and some will have a happy relationship with three people.
Currently, monogamy is considered the only morally acceptable intimate relationship. In reality, an ideal society should not have only one kind of intimate relationship considered morally acceptable. Everyone's choices, beliefs, and life experiences are different. I think an ideal society should respect different forms of intimate relationships. A harmonious society means that everyone can live the way they want, not that everyone is moving in the same direction.
Human intimate relationships are diverse. Even if two people have been together for a long time, they may lose their sexual desire, which is the case in modern society. This requires other ways to compensate.
Question: Some voices say that indulging in sexual desire is like being a beast, a regression of civilization. What is your view on the relationship between human rights protection and sexual indulgence?
Fang Gang: Is sexual freedom really that terrible? Is it really like being a beast? Respecting individual sexual choices is a sign of progress in civilization, while suppressing others' sexual choices is a sign of regression. So-called human rights protection means that individuals have the right to choose their own way of behaving. In other words, even if "indulgence is a beast's prey," as long as that beast doesn't rape anyone, it's its right, and others have no right to criticize, much less arrest it.
Q: Are you optimistic or pessimistic about truly achieving gender equality?
Fang Gang: I'm quite pessimistic. Sweden took 30 or 40 years, and the women's liberation movement took over 200 years, yet they are still far from achieving complete equality. I'm optimistic because I believe we can do it. Regarding long-term cultural change, as I just said, I don't expect to see particularly large changes in my lifetime. But this is a gradual process of cultural transformation. We do a lot, but it's difficult to change everything overnight.

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Sexologist Fang Gang: Adultery, infidelity, and partner swapping are human nature, not crimes.

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